Curse

Karyuu · Nov 02, 2007, 03:05 PM // 15:05

I'm sorry if I consider that an absolute waste of time and having nothing at all to do with exploration.

So people should guess what bosses carry what elites when they go capping too? And looking at a guide or wiki makes them lazy and is considered them taking the easy way out?

HawkofStorms · Nov 02, 2007, 03:12 PM // 15:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_jos

.

However, if someone did not hug the walls from the start, there will be a lot of fog around the edges and it's hard to spot that right away.
That's not bad fog design, it just means that people did not take exploration serious from the start and now pay the price.

BINGO! You know why people didn't take exploration seriously? BECAUSE TITLES WHERE ADDED 1 YEAR INTO THE GAME!

How the heck was I supposed to know when I beat Prophecies prior to Factions coming out that such a thing as an exploration title would exist? You are saying I wasn't commeted to getting a title before titles even existed. Why, that makes perfect sense to me /sarcasm

Torqual · Nov 02, 2007, 03:15 PM // 15:15

I'm still being called a liar.

Look, one of the two people I am taking about went from 85%-100% on Cantha and 60%-100% on Elona over the weekend. People are still claiming this is false just because they don't believe it. The problem is not with the accuracy of the information, it is with your lack of belief. Open your minds. Now, there is even a corroborative post from someone else who got the information first hand.

I really don't like the way that I am not allowed to check out of this thread, I said that the issue was a lost cause for me and the mod should be implemented for everybody, as it is generally seen as an improvement to the game. But STILL people are taking advantage of my non participation but cutting and pasting sections of posts I made days ago and ridiculing them out of context. And I am still being branded a liar on the basis that if it's said enough times and not challenged its true. Guys, look above....there are 20 pro-mod posts in a row. There is no-one to argue with? Give it a rest? QQ more?

It's obvious that the mod cannot be taken away as people need to to complete the title and a lot of people would be really unhappy without it. Gaile can see that, but it doesn't matter what people say now, it's the issue that wouldn't die.

The only thing I wish to acknowledge is the previous post by the pumpkin guy. This sums it up perfectly for me. Guru seems to be full of hypocritical people that say:-

Titles are a pointless e-pee - that's why I have 9 of them
You don't NEED Cartographer titles - that's why I downloaded a mod to get them
The mod doesn't make it easier - that's why I use it
The mod doesn't make anything easier - that's why it's called 'cartography made easy'

What's hilarious is the number of people inhabiting this forum that claim not to care about titles and disrespect anyone that pursues them.... and I wonder whether these people in fact have 5, 10, 15 maxed titles on their accounts that maxed themselves, just accidentally, without any effort?

Everywhere I go in Guild Wars, Kamadan, LA, Kaineng, I see People Know Me (2), Holy Lightbringer (8), Legendary Skill Hunter (1), Protectors, Wardens of the Kurzicks, people with ranks of 6+ in reputation. And yet, strangely, none of these people post on GWGuru. Very strange that the people the care enough about a game to spend their time posting on a forum about it tend to belong to the small minority that have zero interest in climbing up the game's ladders?

I think some people are lying here, and it's not me. ANY title in Guild Wars that is maxed requires a specific and concerted effort. They don't just happen by accident. So all the people above talking about e-pees and titles being worthless, have you really got not maxed titles or are you in fact being a hypocrite?

TBH almost all posters here are working on titles, or have achieved some, so really don't expect me to believe otherwise. I made it clear that I had only a moderate interest in titles, that I preferred to play the game slowly and methodically and work on several together (if anyone read my posts). So, for example, mapping Elona while Vanquishing, and gaining LB and SS points. This is just how I play the game. If others want to pick these titles off one by one farming or whatever, it's their game.

However I have been a victim here of transferring and projecting. A lot of people here (and I am not going to cut out posts) have portrayed me as some kind of title fascist, a grind nazi obsessed with keeping myself above the rest of you and spoiling other people's enjoyment of the game. Now what's actually happened is that many people, worried by the amount of time they wasted on getting titles, the importance they placed on them, and not wishing to admit it to themselves, have found a convenient person to throw on their bonfire. This is kind of how bullying works in schools and since a lot of GW players are still in school, it's unsurprising.

I am not guilty of any of the things I have been accused of here. I didn't lie, I didn't exaggerate, I explained clearly how cartographing without mods is bloody difficult, from which anyone who takes the time can see the massive difference that the mod makes. I devoted a lot of time to explaining my points but it's all too easy to dismiss me as a title fascist trying to spoil everyone's good fun. Because that helps the poster deny things about themselves.

Well, I guess I am happy to provide this service of making everyone feel better.

But liar I am not. Game-spoiler I am not. Mod-banner I am not. Title-fascist I am not. Elitist I am not. Grind-masochist I am not.

QQ more anyone?

Karyuu · Nov 02, 2007, 03:21 PM // 15:21

Torqual, your posts unfortunately will keep disappearing with more and more pages, and not everyone is going to read through the entire thread and realize that you changed your position. So don't get too miffed, it's just bound to happen that others will still only look at a first post in a thread and post right away :] Hard to avoid.

However...

Quote:

What's hilarious is the number of people inhabiting this forum that claim not to care about titles and disrespect anyone that pursues them....

In this thread? I'm not sure. I know many people here have stated that they don't care about the titles of others, while still happily pursuing their own - and not for anyone else's sake than their own satisfaction. I hope that's not hard to believe.

pumpkin pie · Nov 02, 2007, 03:24 PM // 15:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karyuu

I'm sorry if I consider that an absolute waste of time and having nothing at all to do with exploration.

So people should guess what bosses carry what elites when they go capping too? And looking at a guide or wiki makes them lazy and is considered them taking the easy way out?

okay, noted, but i thought exploration is all about venturing into the unknown places and find what is there. sorry you think like that.

No, people who do not want to guess what bosses carry what elites don't have to guess. But I like to do it without the guide, at least in the first round of game play, if i absolutely cannot find what I wanted. I'll look it up, i do not launch the game and goes

okay, i am going to cap A, B, C, D, E today, then go to wiki, look up the location and methodically cap them.

If you hug wall. you will get all the Boss on almost all the maps, they are usually always at the edge and furthest points, plus alot of them are right out side towns and outposts. which makes it unnecessary to use wiki at all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karyuu

In this thread? I'm not sure. I know many people here have stated that they don't care about the titles of others, while still happily pursuing their own - and not for anyone else's sake than their own satisfaction. I hope that's not hard to believe.

no this is not hard to believe at all.

Karyuu · Nov 02, 2007, 03:29 PM // 15:29

In GW, cartography (and in turn exploration) is most certainly not about venturing into unknown places - it's about being stupidly methodical about kissing walls and hoping that you're doing it close enough to get that 100%.

Quote:

No, people who do not want to guess what bosses carry what elites don't have to guess.

Does that make them lazy? If they already did cartography, or don't want to do cartography and thus have no desire to hug walls, wanting to go for the skill capping alone, does that mean they're taking the easy way out if they use the wiki?

Torqual · Nov 02, 2007, 03:35 PM // 15:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karyuu

Torqual, your posts unfortunately will keep disappearing with more and more pages, and not everyone is going to read through the entire thread and realize that you changed your position. So don't get too miffed, it's just bound to happen that others will still only look at a first post in a thread and post right away :] Hard to avoid.

However...

In this thread? I'm not sure. I know many people here have stated that they don't care about the titles of others, while still happily pursuing their own - and not for anyone else's sake than their own satisfaction. I hope that's not hard to believe.

Agreed entirely.

The problem is, all people are seeing now is the OP and the isolated fragments that are being cut out and quoted out of context.

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...213510&page=16

Is a link to where I admitted defeat on this and said that the mod should implemented as standard into the game, because the title was too difficult for people without, and therefore it was seen as a good thing.

I am capable of understanding when my beliefs are not the majority viewpoint. When I started this discussion, it was supposed to be in the Cartographers' forum. I wanted to know how many people were using the mod, whether the people who got the title without it were concerned, and whether the community as a whole saw it was cheating. I got my answers loud and clear - most people use the mod, many people who didn't use it have no problem with others doing so, and most people didn't see it as cheating. So great....carry on modding folks.

Anyone else that wants to cut out my posts and shout in indignation and disbelief, please read this first....

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...213510&page=16

BTW, just for the benefit of Bryant Again, again, I did make one factual MISTAKE when i used the words 'program' and 'programming' to describe the mod, when in fact it's not an executable file.

Here's that link again....

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...213510&page=16

Karyuu · Nov 02, 2007, 03:38 PM // 15:38

Perhaps it would help if you edit your first post and add a clear, bold link to your other in the beginning. Might be worth a try.

Torqual · Nov 02, 2007, 03:46 PM // 15:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karyuu

Perhaps it would help if you edit your first post and add a clear, bold link to your other in the beginning. Might be worth a try.

I really appreciate the suggestion but I do not consider that it would be correct forum etiquette to go back and start altering the OP. Personally I can't stand it when people do this. They throw a hand grenade into a forum, everyone goes crazy then they delete the offending posts to make the people reacting look silly.

There are already 20+ pages of this, but really, if someone doesn't take the time to read them in order, then they shouldn't post. In fact, even people that did read them shouldn't post. I shouldn't post. READER, you shouldn't post.

No-one post, then this thread and all it's horridness will GO AWAY.

Coridan · Nov 02, 2007, 03:47 PM // 15:47

i agree just edit your first post... to titles and such. I personally don't give a rat's ass who has what title on what character they have or don't have.... all i care about are my titles... I work on them when i want to and if i want to...there is very little real benefit to them except for some pve skills and affects...and some exaggerated chance to retain lockpicks or some such...i haven't even done the 3 easy ones yet. I have protector in tyria but not in elona and factions...but yet i am rank 5 on treasure hunter and have vanquish title for tyria...bah i am just rambling.... to each their own...don't worry about other peoples titles...just take pride in the ones that you accomplish and life would be much simpler. sorry for any typos or stupid sounding english...i am tired and want to go home....work is boring today.

Torqual · Nov 02, 2007, 03:50 PM // 15:50

OK. I added a link.

pumpkin pie · Nov 02, 2007, 03:51 PM // 15:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karyuu

In GW, cartography (and in turn exploration) is most certainly not about venturing into unknown places - it's about being stupidly methodical about kissing walls and hoping that you're doing it close enough to get that 100%.

Does that make them lazy? If they already did cartography, or don't want to do cartography and thus have no desire to hug walls, wanting to go for the skill capping alone, does that mean they're taking the easy way out if they use the wiki?

no, they are not lazy, just don't deserve to be call a cartographer, if they don't desire to do it.

Karyuu · Nov 02, 2007, 03:54 PM // 15:54

Pumpkin, I'm not talking about cartographers there. I'm talking about people who cap elites and find out where to go by looking at the official wiki, which is an outside aid similar in purpose to Texmod - to prevent guesswork and waste of time, and increase efficiency.

One you consider taking the easy way out, and I'm asking if you consider the skill cap example as someone being lazy as well. To me, they're almost one and the same.

Bryant Again · Nov 02, 2007, 04:00 PM // 16:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by pumpkin pie

My peeved is, if the mod made it easy, just admit it that you got your title the easy way, its not a crime to do things easy, you just didn't put in the effort, I on the other hand, like to do it the way ANET meant for it to be done.

Would looking up elite skills on the official wiki be the way ANet intended it to be? There's links to it right there in-game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Torqual

Look, one of the two people I am taking about went from 85%-100% on Cantha and 60%-100% on Elona over the weekend. People are still claiming this is false just because they don't believe it. The problem is not with the accuracy of the information, it is with your lack of belief. Open your minds. Now, there is even a corroborative post from someone else who got the information first hand.

It's not *you* I don't believe, but the people. Given the atmosphere of GW - a huge mess of gloating, /ranking, and dishonest scammers - it's understandable why most people don't trust too well in this game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Torqual

I think some people are lying here, and it's not me. ANY title in Guild Wars that is maxed requires a specific and concerted effort. They don't just happen by accident. So all the people above talking about e-pees and titles being worthless, have you really got not maxed titles or are you in fact being a hypocrite?

They technically are worthless. They don't really give any bonuses besides saying that you have a lot of time.

As for me? Yes I have 5 maxed titles so far. And if I wanted to show them off, I wouldn't have the Int. dist set as my home district.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pumpkin pie

okay, noted, but i thought exploration is all about venturing into the unknown places and find what is there. sorry you think like that.

When you've already been there numerous time to the area it gets boring. Having to go back and get that one spot you missed is even more irritating.

And as Karyuu said, you don't really see a whole lot when you're forced to walk into walls at a 45 degree angle.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Torqual

No-one post, then this thread and all it's horridness will GO AWAY.

Tell that to Gaile : \ That's really the only reason I'm here at this point.

Nomen Mendax · Nov 02, 2007, 04:13 PM // 16:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by pumpkin pie

no, they are not lazy, just don't deserve to be call a cartographer, if they don't desire to do it.

OK, to me a cartographer is someone who maps places. If I was trying to map an area on foot then I would have a blank piece of paper and would fill it in as I visited different areas. In GW you start with a foggy completed map, which you slowly unfog. It is the (wholly artificial and "unrealistic") existence of the foggy completed map which appears to make this such a difficult task.

Gaile Gray · Nov 02, 2007, 04:13 PM // 16:13

People,

Relax. I talk to Mike O'Brien all the time about all nature of things. My contacting him on this wasn't a "Big the Big Red Button" action! It was "Hey, here's something players want to know." One of many questions, not a focus, not a concern.

This is about "Can we shut down the mod now?" We love the mods! This is much more of a general question as we all get familiar with the use of mods and the many things they can (and cannot) do.

The suggestion that the visual clarity/fog distinction capacity should get into the game is interesting. Have you ever wondered why we have a radar? For the very reason that people will create map hacks that give them an advantage so we've given everyone a level playing field with the radar. So I can understand the suggestion and it'll be interesting to see what the designers feel about that idea. (And they designers may not know if I don't point it out, so it's all good.)

Shiishii Momo · Nov 02, 2007, 04:20 PM // 16:20

^^^ Yet again, we have gotten word from A-Net on a ridiculously stupid whine thread that should have been closed at page one. When is this thread gonna get closed?? AVARRE HELP!!

pumpkin pie · Nov 02, 2007, 04:21 PM // 16:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karyuu

Pumpkin, I'm not talking about cartographers there. I'm talking about people who cap elites and find out where to go by looking at the official wiki, which is an outside aid similar in purpose to Texmod - to prevent guesswork and waste of time, and increase efficiency.

One you consider taking the easy way out, and I'm asking if you consider the skill cap example as someone being lazy as well. To me, they're almost one and the same.

No, i would not call them lazy, I'd call it a short cut. and a short cut is a short cut is a short cut is a short cut.

as there are many types of players out there, some have work, some have family, friends, you cannot expect everyone to do gaming the whole day.

Bryant_Again, Look above your post, I've already answer Karyuu on the skill cap thing.

PS: I would be overjoyed if Arena Net Decide to include the overlay in the game. So Thank You Gaile Gray, if you have read, there are many thread before this one that suggest some kind of aid for the Cartography title.

Karyuu · Nov 02, 2007, 04:24 PM // 16:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by pumpkin pie

No, i would not call them lazy, I'd call it a short cut. and a short cut is a short cut is a short cut is a short cut.

as there are many types of players out there, some have work, some have family, friends, you cannot expect everyone to do gaming the whole day.

You've effectively took care of your own argument, then.

Torqual · Nov 02, 2007, 04:27 PM // 16:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shiishii Momo

^^^ Yet again, we have gotten word from A-Net on a ridiculously stupid whine thread that should have been closed at page one. When is this thread gonna get closed?? AVARRE HELP!!

It's a ridiculously stupid whine thread is it?

Your post made it so much better though. For me, it was the highlight of 20 pages of discussion. Congratulations on your insightful contribution.